INFP is not alpha
Default User compared the alphaness of the Myers-Briggs personality types. I'm not surprised INFP came in last. This is his take on INFPs:
In the rare instances he crosses the first barrier, an INFP man is not home free. He is handicapped in the follow-up, too. As has been often said in the Manosphere, a woman continually qualifies and judges the man she is with. When a woman tentatively agrees to a test run on a relationship with a smitten INFP man and induces him to open his inner self to her, he is in danger of making her uneasy (or view him as "intimidating"). More often than not, he induces her in short order to eject from the nascent coupling.
Even a short-lived romance exacts a high cost from an INFP man, though. He has pulled his heart open to bring her inside and transforms in order to bond with her as soulmates. When she pulls away, the wound she rips in his heart lingers.
My favorite example of frustrated INFP romantic idealism (besides my own) is canonical poet William Butler Yeats's decades-long quest for transcendent love with Maud Gonne, who repeatedly put off Yeats's entreaties while at the same time accepting lovers who were ordinary men in comparison.
PS: Hooking Up Smart has a link-heavy post on MB types and their relationship compatibilities.
Eric
INFPDefault User says more in the comments, all of it on target and depressing. While an extraordinary surplus of selective qualities such as physical attractiveness, power, wealth, and fame can compensate (JFK Jr is said to have been an INFP), the discouraging reality is the INFP personality does not attract women and, worse, is off-putting. An INFP woman is relatively better off because a woman can cross the first barrier to love by being noticed and receptive to romantic pursuit. An INFP man, on the other hand, is required like all men to extrovertedly and aggressively pursue a woman's acceptance by actively qualifying himself to her. There, the INFP dilemma is worse than superficial disattraction; the INFP personality is also the least intrinsically capable of practicing the "seductive arts". INFP men discover to their deep dismay that their basic personality is the greatest impediment to gaining their heart's fulfillment.
These are the poets of the world. Quiet, deep, and a bit other-worldly. They may be hard to get to know, but will care for all those they meet. Although a reserved type they will be appreciated for their quiet warmth.
Males: INFP is most definitely a female type. INFP males may have a hard time (especially in their youth and teens). However, with their warm hearts and caring nature they just might sneak up on you. Perhaps even more than other introverted types may find it difficult to put themselves forward.
Females: Their deep and introspective natures may make them hard to fathom. Their reserve means they may be overlooked. This will be as much the other person’s loss as the INFP’s.
General: They are the most idealistic of the NF idealists. They may have an ideal for love and the other person that they cannot quite describe. They are probably the type that is least comfortable in a standard dating setting with its focus on glib charm and sometimes-cynical attitudes. The world may run on E/I STJ but it would a much worse place without INFP.
In the rare instances he crosses the first barrier, an INFP man is not home free. He is handicapped in the follow-up, too. As has been often said in the Manosphere, a woman continually qualifies and judges the man she is with. When a woman tentatively agrees to a test run on a relationship with a smitten INFP man and induces him to open his inner self to her, he is in danger of making her uneasy (or view him as "intimidating"). More often than not, he induces her in short order to eject from the nascent coupling.
Even a short-lived romance exacts a high cost from an INFP man, though. He has pulled his heart open to bring her inside and transforms in order to bond with her as soulmates. When she pulls away, the wound she rips in his heart lingers.
My favorite example of frustrated INFP romantic idealism (besides my own) is canonical poet William Butler Yeats's decades-long quest for transcendent love with Maud Gonne, who repeatedly put off Yeats's entreaties while at the same time accepting lovers who were ordinary men in comparison.
PS: Hooking Up Smart has a link-heavy post on MB types and their relationship compatibilities.
Eric
Labels: infp, romantic ideals, traci
posted by Eric at 2/25/2013 05:22:00 AM
63 Comments:
Do you think it's possible to modify certain of the INFP behaviors? Similar to how a shy person can work on overcoming their shyness, wherein they may always be shy or have some anxiety in social situations, but ultimately force themselves through their shyness to better interact with others (sorry for the terrible example, but I couldn’t think of a better one). Or do you suppose that it’s so inherent that it’s nearly impossible to do so? I feel like I should take the Myers-Briggs personality test and see what type I am. It would be interesting to know...
DD,
I don't know.
The INFP descriptions linked on the HUS page match what I know about being INFP, which is to say, what I know about myself. The INFP description on the David Markley site and the description of INFPs under stress on Pstype's 'Myers-Briggs types under stress' post describe my constructive and destructive behaviors and the motives underlying them. Both of them emphasize how hard it is for INFPs to change in areas that go to the heart of their 'true selves'.
It's not autism. Necessity can be a strong enough motive for INFPs to tolerate acting outside their nature - to a point. Tolerance isn't integration. For example, the law is said to be one of the worst professions for INFPs. Supposed INFP JFK Jr became a lawyer at the behest of his mom and was hired as a NYC ADA out of law school. By all accounts, he was an unremarkable, competent prosecutor, but faking it as a lawyer for 3+ years didn't change him. As soon as his 'rookie' contract with the DA's office ended, JFK Jr left law.
I'm curious how many INFPs make it as attorneys, and for those who do, what areas they practice. The Pstype 'MB types under stress' post describes how INFPs become distressed and react poorly to prolonged conflicts with their 'true selves'.
To your question, the essential stuff is inherent enough that fundamental 'red pill' change is hard for INFPs. I haven't settled my romantic idealism with reality yet. Is it nearly impossible? I don't know.
Hey Eric - I totally feel what you're saying - INFP is the most feminine personality type so it's really hard for an INFP man to attract a woman, start a relationship and keep a woman interested - it's probably a lot easier for INFP women as they will get lots of more masculine type men hitting on them.
Have you ever seen Robert Glover's stuff - I found that quite helpful, although it's taking me a long time to get better at dating. Much better than the sociopathic Mystery/Style/Tyler take on seductive arts. What do you think?
Leeroy,
I've seen the name but haven't looked up any of his stuff. Thanks for the recommendation.
@Eric and Leeroy
INFP man here! I tried that psycopathic mystery method stuff for a while and it utterly failed haha. Later in life I cam across Glover's "No More Mr. Nice Guy." The text doesn't offer direct seduction tips like how to 'overcome last minute resistance' (creepy), but instead informs how sensitive men can redirect perceived inadequacies. I know that many INFP have problems with their masculinity and while the book isn't a miracle cure it offers some pretty amazing insights on how to be your comfortable self. Since then I've been trying to forget caring about 'macho-man' BS and lemme tell you the results have been much better when I'm me...the male INFP :D
I am an Infp male as well. I also went thru child abuse and have had to recover from mental health issues related to this.DID and bipolar issues. Also only 5' 3".To say the difficulties for me in the world for me esp. In regards to women has been something of an understatement.
i want to comment
how many books have you people read ?
don't read books about dating. there is one book by mark dice.
do you ever watch mark dice youtube videos ?
mark dice talks to random people on the street and points out how they are like zombies.
do you that much about the illuminati and the federal reserve, how they print paper money out of thin air ?
are you familiar with Ron Paul and the Austrian school of economics
because maybe your only salvation for your personality type is to explain people the truth of what is happening to them in the world.
it's conspiracy theory stuff.
but you need to read thousands of books.
maybe it's best not to think of women.
it's not to think of them in that way when you talk to them, because your/ "our" type has a way of projecting our intentions onto another person.
so maybe your best bet is to wake people up and get angry when a beautiful woman talks about pop culture and stupid stuff. you have to program them out of it and get aggresive,
an INFP can't really come across as aggressive although that's what we are doing within ourselves. but try to speak the truth as much as you understand.
I'm an INFP male
I've had 9 years Karate, 4 years Aikido, 3 years Jiujitsu (still don't like hitting people, even rather be hit than hit)
You can become very adequate in the alpha department if you are determined enough
I can back down ENTJs and ESTJs if I am empassioned enough... I have done it before.
Helps that I am 6'2" as well, but most of it is *desire* to not be pushed around, which I cultivated especially in my late teens and early-mid twenties, over much exercise, both internal and external... courage is something one can develop.
Anonymous,
What's your record with romantic love?
I'm sorry this is ridiculous. From my experience INFPs guys make fantasic lovers.
BULLsht!
INFPs are like little casanovas. If they have low self esteem, then yes, they suck at dating but otherwise they are the most authentic seducers there are, capturing a women s heart.
Of course there not 'Alphas', whatever that means in anyways, but their strengths lies in their goodness.
Manosphere... Interesting ideas, unfortunately biased. This article has successfully categorized all women as the same.
This is an old post, but I hope you will respond. I'm a male INFP.
I read your post about Alpha, dating and male infp and I agree completely.
I'm worried sick about opening up to females and finding out that they will use it as emotional support to their own needs, instead of seeing me as a person trying to make a connection. BTW I am not saying that I'm trying to hit on every woman out there LOL.
It's just when I do see a woman and you get to hear her out and what she's into then I'd like to know her, she seems to be more into men that are more aloof which is not a very INFP trait. And when of cause when we say aloof we're not just talking about a person that just plain quiet, it seems that the person just blurts out certain pieces of data about the person while working on the woman's perception of the guy, wanting her to know the guy more.
I can do this if I want to, problem is just when I do open up she will use it against me.
As in INFP, an idealist i've starting to really lose the respect of the notion of falling in love.
I don't think women (or men really) falls in love with INFP males because we give up our perception of ourselves very easily.
Since we open up like puppies, we put all the cards on the table and expect people to appreciate our honesty, but instead their perception is "I'm not curious about this person".
But I'm also trying to see if there's a way where I can use my strength and combine it with my weakness, I just don't know how though.
Let's face it, we as idealist men are very romantic and very giving. Problem is it really attracts people that just take take and take.
So I guess we need to ask a bit in return. I don't know how? INFP style being all lovey dovey where women are all melting.
Or be more "assertive" like an alpha male (god it's embarrassing to use that term). I suppose being assertive like a lovey dovey person might work, I should give it a try.
I'm sorry for the long comment just wanted some ideas from you:P
Take Care!
INFPDude,
I wish I could offer you a solution. I don't have one.
I'm a INFP/INTP hybrid.
I'm in my mid-20s now but did venture into the PUA stuff few 6-7 years ago.
What I realize now is why do you want to change the essence of yourself just to attract someone will not appreciate you for the real you?
Let's say you successfully turned into an "alpha" and got a girl who is naturally attracted to 'alpha', you will not be truly happy because you cannot express your real nature for fear of losing her.
If you are just after sex, then find an escort.
If you want to find true fulfilling love (which I suspect you do), it is best to find someone who is truly compatible with you.
This post is dumb and sounds like the outcome of someone looking way too deeply into the situation. You are making out like all women are exactly the same and go for this 'alpha' type of male you are creating in your head. Stop reading pick-up artist books for Godsake. And besides, I am a male INFP, I have never found it difficult to 'pick-up'a woman...the only issue is that I am reclusive and a bit of a loner so I can go months or years without a GF. But when it comes down to actually being with a woman...never experienced a problem. This post sounds like the work of a mind obsessed with females and also obsessed with this myers briggs bullshit. Everyone is different, stop branding yourself as a 'type' it is almost psychotic.
And to elaborate on that, who you are and how you act is correlated to how you think you are and what you believe about yourself. I remember I got tested as an ENTP. I read it, and what do you know...it was me - I thought. Then I got the INFP later and also thought that was me. That's just the thing, everyone is unique, and yet, you answer a bunch of questions...and so they lump you into this particular category. I garuntee you I would only be similar to the other INFP males in here from the most basic standpoint...as in maybe I would also enjoy spending a lot of time alone as another INFP male would. But personality in general is something constructed over time, believe you are a certain way and that is how you express yourself. As if God, or Nature, would be so limited and small as to only created 16 different "types" of people, and that your fate is determined by it. The MBTI is theory and theory alone.
Isn't it obvious why your all miserable failures? You're an INFP trying to act like something your 100% not. Why would you want to act "aggressive" and "alpha" when your a INFP! Come on. Doesn't sound very authentic to me. Stop every lame ass effort and attempt at this. Your type is possibly the best at attracting women. You seriously need to find out who you really are and accept it (cause you all obviously got problems). Then you'll finally get confidence after realizing you're actually an INFP and it's natural to be attracting. And why you coming onto them (Way to creep, That will not usually work for your type), be yourself and unlike other types they come to you (maybe not right away, but hey you've already made it a virgin this long). And here's some advice coming from a shocked and apparently very very successful INFP male, stop trying to act tough, your not. Your naturally passive & cool. And if your wasting your almost supernatural gift on terrible type advice from the hulk brogans out there your probably not INFP. Seriously disturbing...
I'm an INFP female. Trust me, it's not just INFP males that have a problem. It's the natural reserve, I think; I have no problem *attracting* men but I'm simply not interested in the banal, everyday chitchat that's required on the dating scene. My ex-husband is an ESTJ (and a quintuple Gemini) and he basically talked for both of us, and didn't really notice that I didn't feel the need to say much! The INFP males I know are lovely, thoughtful, slightly quirky, great conversationalists once they warm up, etc. It's probably helpful, as an INFP, to simply *tell* people up-front that you're introverted and not so hot at small-talk. Women really aren't put off by this admission; nor are we put off by you not being 'alpha'. We like strength and integrity; that's not the same as being Rambo!
Put yourself in a depressed mode and you'll see how much everyone who knows you will appreciate your 'former self'.
Plus you won't need to care about being a nice guy. :p LOL
Trust me, it works.
Btw, an INFP here... :D
Firstly, I'm a female INFP. Secondly, I am an alpha bitch. I said that once to my sweet INFP vet, and he blushed while he insisted I was no such thing. But I am in the wolf pack sense. I raise and train family protection dogs. A good alpha, human or canine, is not at all a Rambo. A good alpha takes loving care of the pack, and she or he fights only when necessary. My smallest bitch, at 70#, was alpha over a whole pack of 8, all of whom outweighed her by 20#, up to 50#. Alphaness is a state of mind. INFPs are generally very strong minded along with being very soft hearted, the ideal mix for an alpha in the real world, and in the canine world from which the term arose. Lastly, INFP men have a real advantage over most other men. They can, and will, talk about their feelings!!!
I'm a lifelong male INFP and I know we're not alphas. I struggled with my role in life and sexuality for a long time and realised I prefer dating guys anyway so that works perfectly for me, in fact I have a good track record of pulling straight guys which I know confuses the hell out of them.
Currently with an ESTJ for several years who still considers himself straight. How does that work? I don't know. Perhaps the gender boundary isn't so rigid as we think.
I'm pretty sure this doesn't help the rest of you though...sorry.
I'm an INFP male, and I'm a sexy dude. Its not an issue at all when it comes to attracting women. The main thing is whether or not YOU know your value as a man. What did Renee Descartes famously say? "Cognito ergo sum. (I think therefore I am)". Change your thinking about yourselves! Women in general view an INFP man who is self-assured as mysterious. It increases the attraction factor...stop talking and thinking negatively about yourselves, guys. That shit ain't cute.
Not sure if any of you are familiar with my blog, Twitter, or podcast, but I am an INFP. If you have followed my work, you'll know that I have had a pretty successful experience with learning "game" and getting really good with women. I believe that being an INFP is directly part of my success! I'm just learning about Myers-Briggs types, and don't know all the implications, but being able to communicate on a level of emotion and symbolic depth to women can be very powerful. As a man, you still have the capability within you to summon confidence, and even social dominance. Dating is a bit of an "act" for everyone, but you can build up your muscles and get better. Being an INFP will absolutely help you be an effective seducer. And in the long run, a woman will appreciate your sensitive side once she is sufficiently attracted to you. As long as you maintain a balance of "alpha" and "beta" traits, you'll be able to keep her forever.
I would advise the infp guys out there not to attempt to change themselves too much. You may have to wait a little longer than some other types, but the right person will come to you. I have started dating an infp guy, who doesn't seem to have too much experience from what I can gather. He is just perfect to me though. Kind, thoughtful, intelligent and romantic, faithful and funny. These characteristics can be rare and are often sought by women once they realise the shallowness and commitment isuues a lot of guys have. Just hang in there and be your lovely selves.
Listen guys, I'm an INFP male and our personalities can be crack cocaine to many women. We're capable of understanding how they feel, of connecting with them on a deeper level than anyone on the planet, of treating them with respect and being very fun and very deep. We often lack confidence, we magnify our weaknesses and downplay our strengths. But if we can understand the power we wield and use it for good, the sky's the limit. Who defines what is alpha anyway? I have a sensitive nature, and I recognize it can get out of hand sometimes, but I'm also a body builder, smart, artistic and someone who is quite capable of standing up for myself if need be. As the above post says, be your lovely selves and make the world a better place, and be confident in who you are.
I am a non-INFP female and I found I have great interest in an INFP guy! We indeed message to each other everyday. One thing really does frustrate me is it seems he is unable to open up himself to me. It is like the one who has been communicating with me is just a 30% of him.
Also, it seems nothing can motivate him to move forward in the goal he expressed it is very important to him. I tried everything to encourage him and motivate him and he said he appreciates yet he still has not make a first move towards his goal.
Is that normal to all INFP male or just happened to him?
Thanks.
Find an ENFJ female! Or ENTJ female, but they are extremely rare and can chew you up/spit you out. You INFP are actually superheroes ... You are like Batman, a deep soul in a kickass body. Do put effort into skills that will make you more well rounded (E, T, J) but you will always be you at the core. So take advantage of being a rugged individual (mega hot) and find a bubbly, genuine lil organizer who is sick of the gross, psycho beefcakes out there. You need an N female.
Pathetic INFP. man, have balls, I'm an INFP. Don't be aggressive but be a man, protect those who loves, lead, stand up for them if needed. we are romantic naturally. Improve your strengths and work on your weaknesses.
I struggled from that way back before but you just need to love yourself first before others. in order to be loved. so that you won't be like needy or clingy.
ENTP girl: INFP guys are amazing! Keep being yourselves, and when a sightly intimidating girl strikes up a conversation with you, keep talking to her! She might just be into you!
So I'm new to all this, just really stumbled upon these personality types in the past few days. Did a lot of research and took the test. I am overwhelmingly an INFP male. I completely relate to everything that describes the type and could have nearly written my own description of it without knowing it just based on my personal experience. That being said I see some common issues with people's views of us and more importantly our views of ourselves. At 32 years old, divorced with two kids, and a full time professional job as a software developer I have come to the following conclusions:
People generally view us as weaker from an early age. I see a lot of women post all over the place how great INFP males are but that is an older in life type thing. After they have realized what douche bags other guys can be. The problem is we are already beaten down a lot of the time after years or decades of rejection and selfish women taking advantage of us (willingly or otherwise). I find that hard to deal with.
Also we do make the best lovers. Period. It's true that I can connect deeper with any woman than any other personality type hands down. The problem is again, at younger ages they don't know how to handle that especially the less compatible types. In the grand scheme of things this is fine and shouldn't matter but to an INFP male that doesn't know any better the first thing we do is internalize it and take it personally. This can destroy us if we aren't able to escape that mindset. Ultimately leading to neediness and insecurity which just makes the problem worse.
I get approached by women more than I approach them by a near 10-1 ratio. And I have a 100% failure rate with the girls I initiate things with. That's obviously just my experience but my biggest problem is that women get scared too fast around me. I'd like to think this will get better as I get older but i don't know. I have been told how amazing I am more times than I can count and it always landed me being single again. I've been told how intimidating I am and that I'm perfect. You can only hear that so much in your life while being rejected before you lose all faith in what people say to you. It has no meaning after so many times.
Every girl I've been with except for one since I was 16 has told me I'm the greatest thing that ever happened to them and that I deserve better or I'm too intimidating or they aren't good enough.... So since that always ends up in emotional failure for me i'm sure you can guess how much I believe those statements now. I've learned to not trust, i've learned to not open up, I've learned to be bitter and contemptful. I know that's the wrong way to go about it and I'm working on that but I'd bet a lot that I'm not the only INFP male that has gone through similar and feels the same way.
I can't let go of my idealized dream of the perfect relationship. I'm getting to the point where I am afraid it will ever happen because every active attempt I make comes across wrong. Like I'm overly cocky or too timid, not alpha enough or whatever.
I actually find my greatest success when my best friend is a wingman. He's an ENFJ real strong and we click more than anyone. He's my best friend and together we do great. He can initiate where I lack and I can take it from there. But he's settled down so the opportunity isn't there as much.
It is very reassuring that there are others like me out there. Was really beginning to feel alone in my life until I learned about this and started looking, finding groups and forums where people discuss it. Helps to not feel so alone. So for that I thank everyone.
I would like to advise younger girls to realize that there's nothing to fear from INFP guys. We are as amazing as we seem and it's not an act. I get the strong feeling more mature women get this or at least a much higher percentage of them.
End Rant. lol
It's nice to see so many different takes on INFP men (I'm one of them).
I agree that INFP's with low self esteem tend to lack inner strength to put themselves out there in a way that others can capture (I've been there). But through introspective work and good advice from a few good therapist I was able to overcome those insecurities.
There is a white knight in each INFP awaiting to conquer his dragons. It's not easy work but the freedom one gets from breaking down our inner walls is well worth the work.
A bit of advice given to a young Native American at the time of his initiation: "As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think."
I invite you to take the leap. The world needs move of us to take that plunge towards higher grounds. It's only by this that we can tell the stories the world needs to hear.
As a middle-aged, twice-divorced INFP male in the contemporary US, and having read nearly every Type book available multiple times, and now FULLY awake to Red Pill philosophy-reality, i can assure you all that if a person is under the delusion that INFP males don't have a more difficult time with relationships in this culture and epoch than most if not all other Types, then such a deluded person is either:
A) very young
B) very foolish
C) very financially well endowed and insulated
D) or perhaps all of the above
Being a male INFP of middling to lower middling class in a hyper-materialistic, hyper-litigious, hedonistic culture sucks big gigantic raw despicable eggs, and that's the reality.
I have struggled with my identity my whole life, trying out all kinds of possibilitys, hoping it would be in that specific activity i would find myself. Purely out of desperation to be understood, needed and recognised by others and most importantly women. Now as i have found out what it means to be an infp and read all your stories and experience's, I now feel that i can be just me and its not my foult, but the structures of society. As infp i find my own inspiration but you guys have helped me alot.
Thanks!
I am an INFJ and my husband is an INFP. We have been very happily married for 10 years. We don't always agree but we never really fight. We talk and we strive to understand each other. He is patient and sensitive in an extraordinary way. There are only 2 areas that we have actually had issues. 1) his personal level of fulfilment in life in general... Trying to figure out how to make a living when normal jobs are so unfulfilling. 2) sex drive differences. He is totally content with once or twice a week and I would be happy with once or twice a day. Also, I do prefer to be slightly dominated (but only sexually speaking). When I realized that a lot of those things have to do with personality tendencies, I have been able to adjust my expectations as well as communicate my own needs. In all honesty, my husband can come across as more "alpha" when he is doing something he is confident doing. So I guess in a way it actually comes down to confidence not alpha-ness. Just my experience anyway.
I am an INFJ and my husband is an INFP. We have been very happily married for 10 years. We don't always agree but we never really fight. We talk and we strive to understand each other. He is patient and sensitive in an extraordinary way. There are only 2 areas that we have actually had issues. 1) his personal level of fulfilment in life in general... Trying to figure out how to make a living when normal jobs are so unfulfilling. 2) sex drive differences. He is totally content with once or twice a week and I would be happy with once or twice a day. Also, I do prefer to be slightly dominated (but only sexually speaking). When I realized that a lot of those things have to do with personality tendencies, I have been able to adjust my expectations as well as communicate my own needs. In all honesty, my husband can come across as more "alpha" when he is doing something he is confident doing. So I guess in a way it actually comes down to confidence not alpha-ness. Just my experience anyway.
I was pretty much confident and really felt special as a person until I did the MBTI test and got the result as an INFP. For weeks, I felt confused by all that I read, then I found it's no big deal. All I cared about was the fact that Life and the choices I make should be more authentic. I am Introverted but that doesn't mean that I have trouble talking or confronting people. Introversion just means to me that the world inside me is much greater and meaningful than the world outside. Getting lost into thoughts is fun. One should never confuse introversion with lack of social skills. I love people and it's just that I prefer shorter and meaningful interactions rather than small talk. In short I love my life and being Introverted is awesome .
It means we generally are not dominant. Us infp guys usually start off as the least favorite in a group and end up (after we get to know you) as close friends. A good example is my boss thought I was a smart butt but and was the only disliked employee but by the end of the summer I was the only one getting hired back next season. (I am a seasonal lifeguard)
Yea ya know you have good friends when they stick by you when you get infp depression. Trust me.
P.S. I'm an infp guy.
The reason you only sense he's only giving 30% of himself is because he actually is only giving 30%. We infp guys tend to hold back, a lot. We don't usually give more than that to anyone but the one we feel we are meant to be with, and it still takes time for us to let ourselves show. (I even give my parents only 30% of myself) Oh yeah if you don't already know, we can be very awkward at times, because of everything going on in our heads.
Yea but we don't usually talk much.
The reason why like what Anonymous said he's only giving 30% is because he can _only_ give 30%, without being weird or awkward. If he ever gave 100%, it'd be at a time when he's most comfortable with you (and himself). If he does it too early or you force him to, it'd ruin everything.
Aren't you sick of being depressed? Seriously, is that a solution?
This is so great! This posting just seems to be a bunch of INFP guys getting together to talk about how much is sucks to be an INFP guy and try to get girls. I'm totally with y'all. It's the worst thing ever! Now, I wouldn't call myself a sissy. I don't cry at movies (though I do like a good chick flick), and I played college rugby (if that's any credit to my honor). I've freaked out more girls by being too into whomever the girl was at the time than I'd like to recall. Keep fighting the good fight, y'all!
ok i hate this ~red pill~ ~alpha~ bs, so im not so sure id like any of the so-called infps who are into this shit (hopefully a lot of you just stumbled upon this from google like i did) but ive got to say that as an infp myself id far prefer to date someone who is like me and not some 'alpha' dude, whatever the hell that means… that being said i dont think im the sort of person who likes dating at all (better things to be doing tbh!) so i dont know how much my opinion counts for here
(also lmao at infps not being aloof… im pretty damn aloof if i may say so myself. or maybe im just somewhat socially awkward and incredibly cold. but whats the difference, really)
Being alpha is not related to your MTBI personality type.
Alpha is about understanding oneself better and the sheer confidence one get by understanding oneself better.
INFP can become an alpha easily by staying true to their values.
defending the loved ones.
there is no rule in the world that INFP cant be confidant.
there is no rule in the world that INFP cant be alpha.
INFP make better alpha than others.
and if seen from biological perspective the man with more testosterone than average male is the alpha and it is not related to your MTBI personality type.
Oh man I just love reading this thread! And your terse comment made me laugh out loud: "yea but we don't usually talk much". I am an ENFJ female and let me tell you...the male INFP is by far the most intellectually and altogether internally attractive individual I have ever met. Basically, I had idealized the perfect soulmate in my head who I thought would be impossible to cross paths with, but having recently done so has been the most enlightening and fulfilling experience to say the least. All NFs strive for a deep connection beyond what is on the superficial, surface-level world and who better to talk to about every aspect and dimension of life than an INFP?! And the fact that you guys don't take too much only makes you better listeners (the best I should say). The INFP male I have in mind is someone who I could talk to for hours (and he will remember every single word). You guys are one special bunch. So please...stay weird, empathetic, philosophical, and genuine because those are the most beautiful traits anyone could have (biased, but should be universally agreed upon)
-ENFJ lady
INFP female in pursuit of an INFP male... who wouldn't want an INFP?!? At 25 I'm fed up with settling on hot, emotionally-insensitive, unphilosophical, uncreative alpha guys, no matter how nice, loyal, emotionally/overall stable, etc they might be. It's just too fucking boring, depressing, unstimulating, and miserable long term. So here I am, chasing after my older INFP male friend I met in creative writing class a few years ago. He works at a grocery store, is short, and his beard is turning gray. Does that stop me because I'm supposedly preoccupied, as a female, with loads of other materialistic, superficial, and "masculine" bullshit you all went on about previously? No! There is no basis in reality for any of those arguments, because just as guys have different personalities, so do girls..... come on. The INFP has the greatest capacity for sensitivity, understanding, and insight.... INFP's are mysterious, strange, charming, strangely charming, authentic, passionate, deep, and creative geniuses. They've also mastered the art of dark, self-deprecating humor so they're funny as fuck. And they're natural writers. Writers are hot. INFP's are hot. Sorry I haven't had my coffee yet, but really needed to say something on here, no matter how poorly organized it is. Takeaway message: shut up whining INFP males, someone out there wants to bang you, and bang you permanently, you just don't know about it yet because she might be a weird INFP female unsuspectingly lurking in the periphery of your life, just waiting for the right opportunity to dump her boring alpha boyfriend and start sexting you. So get off here and go write a poem. That's the least you can do.
Spot on
INF man here. Not entirely sure yet if I'm INFJ or INFP, since as an Enneatype 4w5 I'm somewhere in the middle of the two archetypes. I turn 26 next week, am of average height and build, and have had no trouble attracting women all my life. This isn't because I am particularly "bold" (although I have certainly had my moments) or proactive, but possibly because I live in a fairly liberal area where women find it acceptable to more-or-less initiate romantically. I am fairly good looking, pretty effeminate, also, in my body language and such. If it were not for the fact that I find it nearly impossible to engage a woman I am not genuinely, deeply attracted to on a heart-mind-soul level, I think I could realistically be having sex with a new partner every week.
I am quite comfortable with my feminine side and regularly put it boldly on display. In this day and age, it is quite something to be proud of. Women are openly attracted to such qualities. I have long hair and sometimes wear eyeliner and nail polish for kicks. I also full-on wear a dress and full makeup sometimes, though I never go out in public this way. A lot of women seem turned on by this tendency to cross-dress, rather than turned off.
But it is simply too much work for me to mindlessly chase cars in such a way. I never know what the point is; casual sex is not interesting or fulfilling to me. I do like intimacy and cuddling type activities though; I would not mind having lots of girlfriends just to connect and hang out with. I have serious misgivings about monogamy (my mind wanders and I do get bored easily and I hate feeling trapped in any way), but I still find myself incapable of living the player lifestyle -- in the way that this is typically thought of (having sexual intercourse with as many women as possible).
I might start initiating more, putting more effort into these things, though not for sex. I just want to bond emotionally with women, and do some light touching maybe -- I would prefer for it not to be sexual.
If I've had an unfulfilling romantic life in the past (and I have), it is because of self-imposed limitations (I go through phases where I isolate pretty bad), and not because I fail to attract women.
You create your own reality, to a great extent. Believe in yourself! Appreciate yourself! Love yourself! Don't be afraid to be you, to share your beauty, and you'll find that you'll be having to fend them off with a stick soon enough.
---slushy
I am an INFP male who had tested as INFJ for a long time. Anyway, even though I am single and you could say at a disadvantage due to my extremely short stature, I do not let those things affect me negatively. In fact I think it is fortunate for INFP's to be the type that are so concerned with understanding themselves because it allows one to take advantage of all INFP qualities so that they work for you as best as you can make them. I have had heartbreak and it deeply effected me for a few years but I feasted on the intensity those feelings brought and finally learned to use them as a tool in my life going forward. The plan now is that well... I am creative and so don't need a distraction until I am where I want to be in those projects.Also, I can honestly say that I feel confident that my learning about myself and attitude of using my qualities in the most honest and efficient way possible will lead me in the right direction should I find someone who I cannot resist to ignore. I think most INFP males can at the very least use their idealism and understanding of how other people feel to cultivate a creative strategy that honors their identity as well as allows for confidence that is indeed masculine.
INTJ female here.
I don't think there is an issue with INFP male. I DO think however that a LOT of INFP males cheat themselves by pretending to be someone else in an attempt to "please" others (i.e BADLY processed Fe). I recently had two short-lived "friendships" with such individuals.
I am INTJ: I see crystal clear into people's behaviours and I don't believe the bullshit that comes from their mouths when they try to "pass" for something else.
From the moment they approached me, I knew that those two INFPs (one 30 years old, the other 40 years old) deeply felt inadequate and were ready to do ANYTHING to prove to me that they are "special". This clearly spelt "lacking boundaries => prone to be exploited => tendency to "feel" victimised". I kept my distance while giving some occasional support.
Now, I understand that some INFP males might feel that the whole world doesn't understand them, that they will never be STP-ALPHA (wtf does that mean anyway?). But the WORST thing that a person can do to him/herself is to DELUDE him/herself in believing that they can "become" someone else.
So while I was TOUCHED by the sensitivity/fragility of these two INFP men, I was DISGUSTED at their lack of authenticity and refusal to accept who they REALLY are.
So my advice to young INFP males: You need to REALISE that it is mentally UNSUSTAINABLE to simultaneoously self-sabotage and maintain fulfilling relationships. By losing you sense of self, you are simply setting yourself up for SELF-ANNIHILATION in the long run.
Instead of focusing on "what people need to see about you" (i.e your image/reputation), focus on "what you can do for people" (your morals/values).
There is nothing more disturbing for an INTJ woman to witness an INFP man squander his gifts and stick himself in a rut because of poor decision-making and refusal to accept reality.
^ I think you need to look at your own insecurities and intellectual deficiencies...but thank for generalizing infp's. Makes for pretty decent unintentional humor though.
There are quite a few of us who could benefit from ATD's words. Being fake is like a cancer to us. It will hollow us out if we're are not careful. No matter what we do, our true self cannot and will not compromise greatly. The more that that bond is kept strong, the better you function in all else. Also the stress relief is magnificent. I am working on finding my own way and for the first time in a long time I feel like I'm going forward.
No, it is not easy being a male INFP in a culture that considers ESTJ to be the most manly. The pick-up artist (PUA) forums are full of non-ESTJ types trying so desperately to mimic their behavior, and INFPs are particularly prone to trying to live this lie. However, a truly self-actualized male INFP is a force to be reckoned with. Once enlightened and fully self-accepting, the humble and self-assured nature of an INFP male is what PUAs refer to as a "natural"; the PUAs most dreaded competition. This level of self acceptance takes many years to cultivate, and I'd guess that most INFP men never get there. Work on your weaknesses, guys. I developed my E skills in early adulthood by taking social jobs like waiting tables, and by reading books like How to Win Friends and Influence People. For me, working on my E while not overly suppressing my F were the keys to success in dating.
I'm shy and generally quite beta in my mindset. I've never had any luck with cold approach dating techniques, but I've had many relationships with women I'd otherwise be intimidated by. How, you ask? Well, by being the ultimate ESTJ wingman, of course.
I'm very athletic and blessed with decent looks. Through high achievement in action sports, I was able to express my creativity and exploit my thirst for all things F. This made me irresistable to ESTJ men who frequently took me into their circle to up their social status. Being the ultimate wingman to ESTJs, I'd bring them attention and give them emotional support (many ESTJ men are actually quite shallow and emotionally stunted), but not compete with them directly for attention or women. It was a symbiotic relationship where me and my alpha-esque buddies maximized each other's strengths and weaknesses for mutual benefit. I've met almost all of the women I've loved through association with ESTJs, and all of these women have remarked that my laid back, aloof nature was what attracted them to me above the others.
For me, and most INFP males I'd guess, the biggest dating hurdle is breaking the ice with women. It is not in our nature to be the dominant guy at the center of attention, so don't frustrate yourself trying to be that guy. You are not a take-charge kind of guy, and this will be your downfall in dating women who are normally into ESTJ types. Don't waste your time with these types of women. Your marketing strategy is very subtle, and you will rely on word of mouth and association with other quality people to meet women in more laid back social venues like small parties and social gatherings. Proximity is your tool, not pick-up lines. You do not need to be overly assertive, but you do need to be present, available, and aware of subtle cues that will invariably come your way.
I like this. We infps can't consistently pretend to be something were not. Eventually the facade falls apart, and to some people the facade was already see through. So what's the point? Exactly there is no point to be something you aren't. Like Shakespeare said, to thing own self be true, and all that.
I'm an INFP male, and I'm gonna lay this to you straight and blunt, because I need this too. You sound like you're victimizing yourself (something I am prone to doing). You need to find acceptance in yourself. Somebody out there will accept you for who you are if you own who you are. Manliness is stereotyped in ways which excludes many men in the same ways that womanliness is. It's a bullshit social construct. Do you really need to be an overly extroverted, stoic, rage filled jock to survive in the jungle? You can be, but if it's not who you are you will fail miserably every time. But it would be wiser to work with what you do have as strengths, take in your surroundings, and know to not take on a tiger bare handed and when to avoid conflict if one is nearby, and stalk and take it down when the time is right. Waiting and listening is better that blindly trying to take charge in many cases. Try to balance the two where the situations are necessary. INFP's are not leaders, but they are not followers either. At least I'm not. But they do have the ability to lead themselves and those they care about when no one else can or will. INFP's are powerful and influential, but in very subtle ways that may often get overlooked, but are never ignored.
This PUA sub-culture's biggest mistake is generalizing men and women, which is common for us men to do since we are linear and like to categorize everything. "Either you are Alpha or Beta based on what other people think of you, and all women are the same and like the SAME EXACT THINGS!"
Being alpha is staying true to yourself. That's it. It's not bullshit fucking acting like a jackass. You have many admirable qualities other men lack, and if you are confident in who you are and don't try to change yourself, you will meet women who love you for who you are. For INFP's, our best match is an ENFJ or an ESFJ.
Find your calling and women bedamned. Go MGTOW. Take it from a male middle age INFP who for a long time cared about female validation. Then I got divorce-raped by a ESTP chick, then divorce-raped by a ENFJ. Then I realized, given the hysterically gynocentric laws and customs and media systems of this society, the risk of any relationship with a woman in our society far far far outweighs the benefits. Though I know for a fact now that an INFP or INFJ female are the best and perhaps the only option for a male INFP, and that a healthy INF female will always fall for me, given the horrendously misandric indoctrination that females are getting today on our feminazified college campuses, they come out of there viewing men just like a Nazi views a Jewish person, and I can't abide by that.
I have undertaken a lifelong project, a cause to lose myself in my side projects when not at my nose-to-the-grindstone day job, and who knows, I may even be semi-famous for it posthumously if I am "lucky." But I love it because it is mine and nobody and certainly no female deserves the right to derail or even inconvenience my projects.
You need to get to a place like that and stop giving a crap what females think. I used to be you. I know whereof I speak. Trust me, the women aren't worth it; certainly not the ones this society is producing anymore.
Live for yourself. Or serve a higher cause. But female validation is NOT a higher cause; indeed, it is a cause of lower value than yourself.
Ha.....you know it. If you are true to yourself as an infp some ladies find you irresistible .....eventually. The quite watcher at the party who finds the perfect moment to drop an amazing observation, pearl of wisdom or hilarious joke. I'm only interested in people who are interested in me. Chasing things is for predators.
Of all the comments here I trust this one the most. [Male infp here] Thank you for the sane response and for relaying your experiences. Hope your project(s) are going well brother!
INFP-A Male here. I'll post this in two parts because of the character limit.
Part I
Let me start first by saying how much of a hidden gem this post is. I've never come across so many INFP male posts in one place in my entire life. I doubt Eric expected his post would one day turn into this hub of mutual empathy all those years ago.
I'm young and dumb and stupid and I'm probably going to some degree regret this post in the future, but I'm still going to leave it even though I've 100% in the past just not commented on anything. Some of these comments really bother me and remind me of my unhealthy self that I had to heal predominantly on my own (the people I'm close to try to help, but you know how people like us tend to be; they can only help so much). So I have to step out of my comfort zone. I have to try and remind people about what makes us, us. I have to. Even if I change the mind of just one person, even if I give hope to just one person, then it'll be worth it. I know it.
I read through every comment in one sitting after I was feeling down (temporarily of course, as I've learned to cope with it). At first I was like, "this is SO me," and then I just kept reading and reading and reading and reading, and then I forgot how I was feeling at the time and I was confronted with the same old question that I struggle with answering literally every single day,. "Why?" In this case, along the lines of, "Why did I feel like this? Why do I keep feeling like this? Why do other people who are out there who I've probably come across a couple times (we hide pretty well) feel like this? Why to this intensity? Why do some of us break down when others are perfectly fine? Why does there seem to be women out there who theoretically would GENUINELY cherish my "type" but I can't seem to find them?" and so on and so on. You get the idea. Lots of questions. Lots of thoughts.
Some people have lived the struggle; they've been rejected continuously whenever they go after a girl. This history piles up, and that feeling of having one's heart dragged over hot coals gets stronger and stronger with each rejection and failure. They feel like it's pointless to hope, to dream. They immerse themselves in everything they can think of to cope with the problem. I've been there. I get that. It sucks.
But here's the oddest thing. Every time that it happens and It feels like I'm dead inside, I look around and realize what I already have BESIDES the girl who just sniped me... and eventually... I feel better. And then I reflect on how this just happened AGAIN, on how this feeling just wrecked me AGAIN, and I find myself driven to dream EVEN HARDER about that one girl who I know will treat me right and bring out the best in me. Why? Because I realize that every single rejection and failure will make me want to treat cherish that one girl even better and cherish her even more. You don't need a hundred girls to make you happy guys. You just need one.
So I'll keep dreaming of finding her, and I'll keep myself open to the world and all its opportunities. Every time I'm rejected, I'll simply use that feeling to drive me to become more like an idealized self. I'll focus on the future, and make sure that I'm so damn amazing that by the time I find that girl I'll feel worthy to spend my life with her. I'll remember my past, the names of all those women who at the time I felt so heartlessly rejected me, and remember my time that I spent with them. And I'll cherish those painful memories. Without them, I wouldn't have learned how important it is to be a good influence on the world. Without them, I wouldn't have known what to look for and what I should TRULY value. Without them, I wouldn't have grown and become a better person.
INFP-A Male here. I'll post this in two parts because of the character limit.
Part II
Guys. Its okay to wear your hearts on your sleeves. It's okay to love when you wanna love and cherish what you wanna cherish. My family calls me an "angel" because of how I so lovingly devote myself to them without asking anything in return. My real friends cherish me when I'm with them and tell me they feel like something is missing when I'm gone because I provide them with the understanding and appreciation that everyone else in the world seems so unwilling to at times provide. The people I'm with literally once in my entire life smile when I'm there because I always try my best to try and make their day a little better, be it through a small service, or being polite, or just flashing them a warm smile.
The world can be a dark and terrible place. People can use, abuse, and discard you. People can laugh at you when you talk about your dreams, and do everything within their power to bring you down. But at the end of the day, I know there's a silver lining to everything. I know there's a reason for everything. I know that the moment that I give in, tear my heart from my sleeve and shove in the icy vault in my chest, and lose my childlike sense of wonder, my willingness to dream, then the world will win, and I will lose. There will be one more black hole absorbing all the light from the world instead of a warm star trying to light up the great abyss. And I don't want that. People making me feel a certain negative way that I don't wanna feel pisses me off, and so I'm gonna resist with all my might.
Guys. Don't lose your wonder. Don't lose your dreams. Don't let the world dictate what you yourself believe and achieve. That's what makes us, us. I get that you've been through hard times. I get that you're going through and that you're probably going to go through some more. But the moment that you internalize those dreaded and terrible feelings into your heart and anchor them in place with reason upon reason and history upon history, you will lose yourself, and this will reflect upon everything you do and every person you meet.
Guys. Don't. Lose. Yourself. Defend it. It's your most valuable possession. If you die in the process, so be it; there's worse things than death (at least that's the way we should live). You can come back from the emotional dead anyway too. I've done it. I know everyone here has done it at least once to.
Fight. Reflect on your past to understand your weaknesses and strengths, and to help prepare for the worst. Always hope for a better tomorrow.
Fight. Every time that you do, you'll discover that you're much more capable than you might think you are, than in the moment you might feel you are.
Fight.
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